09:14:04 Great, let's, let's start the discussion, and I'm going to start it off by going back to a comment that Nicholas Boucher made about the h1 fluff. I think above and below the desk and I'll let him ask, expand upon this. 09:14:26 It might not be dominant form of each one around most galaxies, and he posted an image in a paper by Fabian Walter that showed you can have. 09:14:39 Each one condenses of 1019 out to I think 40 killer parsecs insect each one cubes around you know along the radio desk I think you mean. So, Nick. 09:15:00 Nicola went to talk about that a little bit more. And we can begin that. 09:14:55 So thanks Ben I think this co rotating structures that crystal children I completely agree with the picture that you presented there now, you should not think about these as thin desk but don't really call rotating structure gas stuff flowing around and 09:15:12 rotating the same direction. 09:15:14 And what we see with monies into is obviously cool from a CGM point of view, and then to the 4k also at 2262 the process, and then I was stunned by these results of stacked h one data cubes. 09:15:32 And what they do is they remove the kinematics to do the stalking, such that it can get high Signal to Noise along the major axis, and find that the density profile or the column that the profile extends out to 30, to 40 in some cases with column densities 09:15:51 of 10 to 19, which is more or less in agreement with the Congress that he will expect from the magnesium columns that we see, or that Christopher scenes. 09:16:03 And so this is kind of a, an emission picture of what's going on. 09:16:07 And I was wondering, then you know in in movies to Filippo I don't know if he's here but in the amount of each one that is extra planar is surely there and it's surely happening, but it seems that to me there's a lot more mares in this coding structure 09:16:26 between 20 and 40 get a prosthetic. 09:16:28 Given the column densities. 09:16:32 Yeah, that'd be great if Filippo has his hand up so 09:16:38 please comment. 09:16:40 Yes. Okay. 09:16:41 Yes. 09:16:44 No, I was just, yes because because you mentioned that they could say something about it so that the. 09:16:57 I think God I think galaxies are we, I mean, the picture is that there is both. 09:17:05 Though these extra planar these extra planar layers. As far as we know, in all galaxies there is that mean the Marasco attack on paper that has been mentioned also by Christ and essentially the old sample shows is that a planar gas and that that the, 09:17:22 the amount of gas that is there is in some of the order of 15%. of the total mass of each one in the galaxy. 09:17:34 And maybe in the outer parts there is more, you can say that there is the maybe twice as. 09:17:42 Sorry. 09:17:43 I don't know 50% of the gas can be in the out of disks or 30% or something like that. But there is a big difference that the gas that is in data plane at layer, we know for sure that it cannot stay there, because this is not is not an equilibrium, any 09:18:00 sort of equilibrium is not particularly in there because of studying equilibrium. So that, that gas is going to come down to the disk and that's why we think that is continuously replenished by the fountain, but you can also replenish by an occasion, 09:18:14 if you want, but the problem is that the time scales for it to come to the disc are very short, a few times into the seven. 09:18:23 And then the old, and the old layer disappears. So if you have to keep their 10 15% of the massive of each one, all the time, you need that you need a big flow, and this is what is very easy to determine that the flow to keep it there is actually larger 09:18:43 than the star formation way. 09:18:47 While in the outer parts. Okay, there may be some, some inflow, but also the, you have you have rotation on support quite a bit. 09:18:57 Right, it's not clear to me what how much inflow you're having these Auto Parts compared to the ones that are coming vertically, and also the vertical stuff that has to come down seems to be kind of doing a quick, back and forth, up and down above the 09:19:14 the disk from supernova feedback. And so from the perspective of the galaxy feeding 09:19:23 in the bathtub context it's. 09:19:30 You always us and pu reusing so it's more like a recycling process where we really need to have a significant amount of creation. 09:19:35 From the outside of the very used to sustain or to replenish the gas 09:19:42 timescales of a few games. 09:19:45 Yeah, i mean these we go back to the user discussion but one thing let me point out just this Ben and then I shut up. I don't say anything else, and that the Galactic fountain more than, without acquisition so without the mixing and, and all of the on 09:20:06 the fountain gas, with some material that is coming in, somehow, does not reproduce the data, because the because you don't reproduce the kinematics of this the planar gas is only ever pure galactic fountain, we, we see clearly that the Galactic front 09:20:42 is interacting with something. And one interpretation is that it is interacting with a creative material and bringing it down to the disk. 09:20:35 Let's move on to our next question that he posted in the slack. 09:20:39 I think this is really interesting. Um, I've heard, Chris Martin, refer to the rotation signatures that he finds in the lyman alpha halos users with KCWI as extended thin rotating discs, I wonder if this is primarily a difference and interpretation, or 09:21:00 is there an actual redshift evolution to the structure of these rotating halos since the ones that he's observing is it Richard three or above. And it's kind of a corollary to that I wonder if we could potentially distinguish observational in the kinematics 09:21:15 signatures between kind of a rotating cooling flow or things of the sort. We've been talking about versus in inspiring cold filament which might be very narrow. 09:21:29 And thanks. 09:21:34 Yeah. Does that Chris Do you want to respond to that. 09:21:40 Sure. Yeah, I was cautioned by Avishai not to call them disks, and so I now call them extended rotating structures, which is some sounds a lot like what crystal was calling them. 09:21:57 And you cannot really with the data to determine that they're, you know flattened disk that either they're consistent with, you know, it could be a thick or, you know, a warped kind of structure with multiple planes, you know, within a range, relatively 09:22:14 tight range but. So, so come up with a better name. 09:22:21 I think we definitely want to talk about the morphology of this extended thick discs and it's great that we have, Stephanie Whoa, on the panel. I do see a panel member another gentleman member with his hand raised and that's Zach. 09:22:38 So I will give him the floor. 09:22:42 Okay, um, I can talk a little bit about from a cosmological simulation perspective what we expect to see, and just kind of give a brief outline, both is a function of redshift, and as a function of Halo max. 09:22:57 So for a constant. 09:23:01 Healing mass across different red shifts. As you go to hire redshift, you're going to expect thicker more dense filaments etc. 09:23:09 And what that means is that you can see more of the environment. Cereal is going to be in the form of filaments which means it will be less coherent potentially. 09:23:24 Instead, if it's coming from a say 09:23:28 accretion out of a hot Halo onto a disk or something of that sort, which is actually kind of what do Shawn. 09:23:37 Well what I've been looking at and what we see in some simulations, then that will be more organized and go here and as it happens. 09:23:46 Now that's also the case for when you look at change between a hill of ass so if you go to a milky way master dinner, and look at a little redshift, then a little redshift most of the cool gas that's forming in the inner region is a Korean out of the 09:24:00 hot Halo, and is therefore going to be aligned with a disk because had time to exchange momentum. If you go to pre visualization, then this gas is going to be subs, or supersonic and can be falling in with a variety of directions and be therefore much 09:24:18 less coherent. And so then you'll expect a mess your desk at that time. 09:24:22 And so you would say overall see this kind of change and coherence, as a function of both Bridget and Halo mass, that'll be my general predictions. 09:24:32 I don't know if that's consistent with what others expect to see. 09:24:39 Yeah. 09:24:40 Interesting I Nicola Go. Go ahead. I see your hand raised again, just to comment on the morphology and near newest question here. 09:24:51 We would love I think to image, these co rotating structured receiver the metal lines are rich to one or point a walk to the crystal in lemon alpha, that's currently not possible, and vice versa a rich have to we would love to do the same experiment with 09:25:11 magnesium to. And that's difficult, so it's difficult to compare these two things because we're not really necessary probing the same same gas with news there's also a lot of London halos around quasars or wrong, galaxies, and these tend to be on the 09:25:30 majority of the case. 09:25:32 Spiritually symmetric. 09:25:34 So, there is not a lot of evidence for co planar gas in lemon half a mission. 09:25:43 That will be the analogs of the mechanism to, co rotating gas and ritual. 09:26:06 Interesting. 09:25:53 I want to talk about. 09:25:56 I want to make this conversation active there's a lot to digest here and I want people to think about, you know, the morphology of thick disks. 09:26:08 At at different redshift and around different Halo masses, and I thought you know crystals, highlighting of the work of Stephanie's stuffing hose, looking at those ego simulations was really interesting and the issue of of contamination but, um, let's 09:26:24 let's shift the conversation to outflows and you know in some Stephanie's 09:26:33 stacks of Eagle galaxies you didn't you saw the. 09:26:37 You saw a gas line with semi major axis but you didn't see a lot of gas out of the semi minor axis of outflows and I know Nicola has has observed this and Glenn and all these people. 09:26:53 So, um, Jess I think you had a question about this. Do you want to talk about, you know, signatures of outflows where where you see that and, and then we'll let the observers, others observers chime in. 09:27:06 Oh, well, I think, I think I have heard some conflicting views in particular on the kind of like as a mutual you know dependence of magnesium to absorption. 09:27:20 And so since so many people are here, who study this kind of thing I would really just love the, like, a key players, including Stephanie gel when Nicholas boo Shay, you know, and ramen if he's here to just weigh in on, you know, the azimuth codependence 09:27:42 of these absorbers weak and strong because I guess there's some kind of conflict. 09:27:50 Because if observers don't raise their hands soon I'm just talk about, you know, that Eagle. I don't think gets the magnesium to above and below the plane. 09:28:02 In the outflows right and i think other simulations probably don't get it either. 09:28:08 Though I think there is some work. 09:28:10 So we'll go with Nick, Nicholas again and wait for others to chime in on the observational side. 09:28:29 Yes, I'll talk about a simulation side actually because I was part of the developers paper that in tng that Christian mentioned in there as well. There's no mechanism to in the minor axis, so the Bible the distribution is not there we only see magnesium 09:28:34 two phase gas in the car rotating structure around the disk. So that intimidation, that seems to be a general feature currently that we got the discs white we get this formation but in terms of the outflows there's something missing. 09:28:48 And in terms of the controversy I think it's non controversy with German speak first. 09:28:56 We're going to put people on the panel on the spot so shallow and take it away. 09:29:01 Well, I think it will be good to review all the observational resolves, I don't think, If you put all the papers together. 09:29:13 The picture is that clear. 09:29:15 Me starting on his great iraq Miss here as well, his classic 2011 papers show very clearly the enhancement in magnesium to line with within 50 k PC along the minor axis from these ratio, one ish galaxies, but there was, at the same time there's no distinction 09:29:39 beyond the 50 k PC radios, and since then there are, there have been a lot of papers, you know, trying to look at the similar trend or lack of along the same direction and I have seen literally from, you know, left and right, that says, either their search 09:29:59 by modality all the way out beyond the hundred k PC or there's no such as the mutual dependence. 09:30:09 And also you know the evolves work from, you know, like, well crystal mentioned you know very careful analysis of highly resolve specially resolved galaxy mythology either from HST or from ground based adaptive optics image to, you know, measurements 09:30:27 based on seeing limited data. 09:30:31 Having done this myself. 09:30:34 I just find you know a clip, a clear definition of, you know, inclination and orientation is not straightforward. So I don't know you know if it's worthwhile just do a very careful, you know, arrow budget analysis. 09:30:52 And just to see, I see that there's the contest about the whole city measurement. Maybe there should be a contest about, you know, even same image, same galaxy images, do different observers produce the same alignment you know inclination and position 09:31:09 angle measurements. 09:31:11 I think that's something that's worth considering. But I think, you know, Jess is also aware of all these papers I was referring to. I think most of us really cannot get a clear picture of you know whether or not there's really a smoking gun observation. 09:31:48 that tells us concretely that. Why is, you know, outflows or involved is just what I think is. 09:31:42 I feel like crystal probably has a very different view but I don't see i don't know i'm not you know. 09:31:49 Yeah, I think it's interesting to hear you say that it's not a simple picture because that's definitely the impression that I get and I was just I was hoping that there was a lot of people now with their hands up so I'm really interested in hearing this 09:32:03 right you guys Express fully. 09:32:07 You have inspired a lot of interaction here, I let's, let's give it to Crystal. She's She's our keynote. 09:32:16 Let's give her the floor. 09:32:19 I felt like I already had my turn to speak there but I was kind of been invited there by Jess. 09:32:27 You know, just looking at the simulations right on a individual Galaxy by galaxy basis, that this co rotating gases, a bit of a train wreck right i mean it's it's a rotating structure with with filaments and arms and things coming in and out. 09:32:47 And some of that gases is is counter rotating. It's just that, on average, right in the median stack there there is very much a net co rotation, but any individual galaxy. 09:33:02 Anyone sightline. 09:33:04 There's all kinds of results you could get. So we're talking about mean properties here and bulk structure and bulk motion. 09:33:13 So I think you've got to keep that in mind when you go in. 09:33:17 Analyze real observations right it's what you get in the mean that we're after. You know, I think the land and mo work where you got half a million galaxies, really shows that statistically right in a minor axis sight line, you will get a higher magnesium 09:33:36 to equivalent with that then you will at a random as a musical ankle. I mean, with those kinds of statistics I don't see where that result is debatable. 09:33:48 We can argue about what that equivalent with excess means. 09:33:55 I think we would all agree it's got to do with with kinematics in some form. 09:34:02 Now if you're going to push a step further and say, you know, is that a wind. You know I think things become more debatable even what you mean by wins if I had gone further I would have showed one system, where there's a down the barrel observation of 09:34:19 magnesium two and a transverse sight line detection of magnesium to, and I'm a co author on the paper so I can say that we probably incorrectly model that you know as gas clouds coming out of the Starburst and traveling 60 kilo parsecs into the Halo, 09:34:39 that that's completely incompatible with with the present when models it's different. gas it's maybe different phases of the same wind, it's maybe two different ejection episodes that we've connected. 09:34:54 So, what's clear to me is that the CGM above it along the minor axis of star forming galaxies is can magically disturbed. 09:35:08 I see wrongly that has something to do with wins. 09:35:12 ICT rapidly that has something to do with wins. I see Rodman's hand up and he's his name has come up a lot so Robin take it away. All right, thank you. Um. Can you all hear me. 09:35:21 So I think I really echo crystals statement. I think she very eloquently put it that with statistical force at least my paper we had stacking analysis of thousands of foreground background galaxy peers. 09:35:38 I had a chest imaging and I spend, I don't know, months staring at individual images to make sure orientation angles are great etc. 09:35:47 And we were very careful because this was the first study to make sure we only included isolated, implying objects, etc. And the statement is when you do this kind of a stalking analysis in Ben's, although you might have errors in on individual measurements. 09:36:16 When you build them together, on average, there seems to be an enhancement of magnesium tickle and with along the minor axis, compared to major axis. Now, is it completely not consistent with the binomial distribution that Nikola finance and Glenn cap 09:36:23 x group fine. We spend a lot of time thinking about it we model it, we had a lot of interaction back and forth with them and we agreed that they are not inconsistent simply because when you stack there two components coming into play it. 09:36:38 You have contribution from equivalent with itself, which is perhaps you to calm density perhaps the the kinematics for for a second just leave it aside. 09:36:48 Be, which is very important is also covering infection. 09:36:52 If you have access extended disc, you are more likely to have strong absorption along the major axis at a very small sort of equal, sorry, azimuth L'Engle. 09:37:05 So if you have a bunch of sidelines around it, you're more likely to have an average value, which is sort of depressed on by non protections in that in those sightlines Also, if you have a sort of a finance sides of the desk. 09:37:17 Also, if you have a sort of a finite size of the disk. So when you have an average measurement like my work or land and most work. 09:37:30 Even a model suggests that you should have this kind of access along the minor x's and slide depreciation along the major exist simply because of this waiting. 09:37:34 Whereas if you do individual sideline study, clearly if you have a delay along along the major axis you probably should have a whopping magnesium to absorption, which is clearly what we see in individual silence studies, so I don't think they're inconsistent, 09:37:47 it's, it is I agree it is a little bit hard to interpret but that's why I think we did spend a lot of time thinking about it and the conclusion was that these two results are consistent. 09:38:00 And again crystals point that the results she showed is very very sort of. 09:38:06 Yeah, let me just finish. 09:38:08 I think the results he showed is very very informative, that you have very Uber strong mechanism to absorbers, you know, equal and with up to or higher etc along the major axis, this is what you would expect for the sidelines and the stronger sideline 09:38:18 she's so it shows that you know along the minor x is there's a strong contribution. 09:38:26 So that's the picture I have in mind and, and the weaker, sort of, non detection or we get absorbers it could be anywhere. So, I'm not again making a statement and this is definitely due to wind or this is definitely do something else, but I'm saying 09:38:40 there is a signature of excess absorption in the studies that is definitely out. 09:38:48 If I could use a direct response to the point both Christo and Rachmat are making. 09:38:56 So thanks rock man for highlighting the caveats in interpreting this set spectrum, because the me equal with really is a combination of the actual intrinsic with, and the covering fraction in the volume, we are trying to Pro. 09:39:14 So I just want to step back and think about this once we have that idea in mind that the me equivalent with is folding the, you know, differential copying fraction. 09:39:28 That means, the implication will be that alone the minor actors have a red galaxy seeing them all resolved result means that is quite likely that even for rare galaxies along the minor axis, we do see sometimes strong magnesium to absorbers possibly stronger 09:39:48 than star for me and galaxies. What does that tell us what does that mean, I think that's a question, I haven't heard the answer to, once now we recognize the fact that the carbon fracturing is not unity. 09:40:03 So, but another point that you know, maybe I should come back to about the velocity shear, if I'm going to stop here. 09:40:13 Okay, I like to hear about that at some point, too. I think there's a lot of we want to go up, you know, to allergies and more massive halos at some point and I see Nicola Niklas hand up. 09:40:28 And I'm going to yield the floor to him. 09:40:32 Thank you, but I want to add my two cents to the debate here about, and we have think we have to distinguish between whether the CGM. The from magnesium to his eyes A tropic or not. 09:40:47 And the interpretation, and and crystal said that nicely. 09:40:50 I think just this question is like is the CGM from language and choose sightlines either tropic or not as a tropic. 09:40:58 I think the evidence here is quite strong for not isotopic distribution of the metals in low redshift galaxy there were just one also. There's a number of studies, independent studies including the one from Britt Lohengrin that have appeared today or 09:41:15 two days ago on Astro pH is Slack, the stack from wrong one and other stuff in my personal case I was involved in three different samples, and we found the same results. 09:41:29 And it comes down that you have to be careful when you associate absorber and galaxy to make that connection. Typically, you have to take isolated galaxies and not having too many neighbors within 100 period process. 09:41:41 And the point of same limited data. 09:41:45 Ron mentioned that it can be done with HST complimentary observations, but with news or if you have the kinematic axis and so it's very difficult to make an error for that the kinematic axis for the rotation curve is what it is. 09:41:59 So, the is very difficult to make an error for that, and the, the other point I wanted to make is that we find with a few observations of news that, especially when you want to associate star from in galaxies and absorbers that are two amateurs. 09:42:14 Typically, and do not necessarily have a continuing counterparts, about 30% of them don't have contingent counterparts to the death of medium deep news observations, which reached like 26 or 2522 to them. 09:42:28 And so when you do this, absorber galaxy appear business and we try to study the geometry of the CGM, and you might have a different answer whether they have an emission selected sample over continuing be selected sample. 09:42:42 And then the think the question I have to just because I don't see this as a debate, I can see many reasons why you would make mistakes and we have our own the measurements of the geometry being outside. 09:42:55 All these arrows would kind of wash out any kind of known as a traffic signal is by modal distribution will disappear. So how, how do you get this by accident in several different samples. 09:43:10 Yeah, I think. 09:43:13 Yeah, it's great. Thank you for mentioning you breathe I don't know if she's still online. 09:43:18 So, so the paper came out on the archive today so I had a chance to just quickly browse through the paper, it looks like they are actually finding. 09:43:30 I would say a dearth of magnesium to along the minor axis, if you look at their Etsy Muto distribution. 09:43:39 There's sort of a peek at about 60 degrees, and another one coming at about zero degree Yolanda major axes. So I think they just as to this, this picture this just further. 09:43:58 Creating ambiguity in the whole to explain this because it's exactly what we see and it's naturally explained in the back when it was odd through where, where the magnesium would be probably more the sort of the edges of the artful in line over the picture 09:44:12 of Megaman showed last week. So, this is the at 90 degrees you don't actually expect to have a maximum, it's more accurate 60 to 70 degrees. 09:44:21 Okay, so there's actually what you would expect for an outfit scenario, whether that's the right interpretation that's a different question. 09:44:27 Well let's, let's have this conversation. 09:44:42 Extend on, especially on the slack as well. Um, I see Stephanie's hand up and she is a panel member so I definitely am looking forward to hearing from her. 09:44:41 Oh actually like want to ask, Nicola of like what he just said. 09:44:47 The if you'd like to see unlimited data with IFQ plus kinematic like information for modeling like the galaxy mythology and define like inflammation ankle ankle. 09:44:57 So I'm just curious like how, like how certain like this you have to two kinds of information together. Like, how does like what what uncertainties off the inclination ankle ankle for like messy rush to a point five galaxies or mega flow like Russia one 09:45:12 galaxies like, what are the, like the PC era budget for those measurements. 09:45:19 So for the very good question. So for the major axis the kinematic measure axis is hard to get you have a plus or minus sign of the rotation a hard to miss to the out the major axis angle would be typically less than five degrees error on the inclination 09:45:35 we have some don't some tests on food, we have the HST imaging, and we find that the we can recover the inclination to 10 degrees, accurate is the standard deviation seven degrees. 09:45:49 On the inclination and that's because we're doing forward modeling with advanced algorithms so it's more than just taking the same limited data we can do. 09:45:59 We can take that into account again inclination. 09:46:02 And I think there might be a comment by Joe about an isotopic outflow, Joe. 09:46:11 I just wanted to say, you know, We recently mapped in magnesium to a mission. 09:46:16 It's definitely an outflow extending about 20 kilo parsecs from the galaxy, and definitely not calling me did. 09:46:29 And so, best weekend model, it is isotopic So, you know, I mean, I don't know if it's generalized as to the greater argument about statistics and whether you know these enhancement absorbers along the minor axis is actually tracing an outflow. 09:46:46 But, you know, if this object is one object but, you know, if you were to extrapolate. 09:46:55 You know, it would not lead to such a scenario being a smoking gun certainly for for outflows by conical outflows that is. 09:47:04 That's great, talking about ignition here and seeing more isotopic alpha, Zach. 09:47:10 You have your hand up. 09:47:12 Yeah, so I actually want to follow up on Joe's point, which is one thing. So, so I'm curious to hear Joe whether or not that was for a low mass or high mass galaxy, relatively speaking to like milk way mass, because one thing that's really useful to think 09:47:29 think of, in my opinion for the orientation of the outflows is whether or not we're talking about a disc Aleksey or we're talking about something that is much more. 09:47:41 You know sphere spherical, which has been kind of in the background is discussion entire time. 09:47:46 So when you have something that's much more spherical oftentimes, you're not going to have nearly as much an organized effort at least in simulations. 09:47:55 Yeah, so, I don't know, and Joe was that what was the morphology of that galaxy. 09:48:01 Lower masses described but it's potentially undergoing a merger. 09:48:10 Okay. 09:48:12 That's interesting. Um, I want to get to a comment by a question by Todd trip, and I'm going to read it off the slack. 09:48:21 It seems clear there isn't an enhancement along the minor axis of magnesium too. 09:48:28 But since this is galaxy evolution week perhaps we should tackle this question to are those empty to absorbers revealing massive outflows or are they just metal rich bits of smoke that don't carry much mass. 09:48:41 That's a great question. 09:48:46 Robin loves that question, he's applauding it, so maybe he wants to answer that. 09:48:56 Oh I got volunteer. 09:48:59 I, I would love to know the panelists view on it because, to me it's not their care. 09:49:06 There is a signature which I actually do believe their signature at least for. 09:49:11 Let's take out crazy murderer, or Starburst galaxies regular stuff from the galaxies. 09:49:16 There is a signature of enhance kinematics that's, that's my understanding of the literature review anyhow in this field along the minor axis. 09:49:26 At least up to some level, it must be crazy. Perhaps and train gas and oil and gas or somehow clouds track there. 09:49:36 But I don't have more than a gut feeling out argue, or from simple title suggests that this is reasonable. But that's all I have to add to that, I would love to hear from other people. 09:49:57 I'm going to give you the floor to Stephanie, because we haven't heard from her as much. 09:50:03 I guess my simple few of those like broad like magnesium to have soft and along minor access I more Think of it as like kinematic deep disturbance of rage, like this Flossie rage spent by the magnesium to absorption is just thinking it as like there's 09:50:17 a huge like mass like that like shooting out of the galaxy. I think like for example and in the paper like crystal, like the first author I'd like to 2019 that we would spend paragraph so like it's discussing this scenario, and do some modeling of like, 09:50:40 if you have like an upload outflows from a galaxy and we know which way to galaxy this tool and then like how can we model at least range specified magnesium tips options. 09:50:46 So I guess what I'm saying just felt like even having a graph like magnesium Jeff's option near the galaxy minor access it. Basically, just as at least for me and my future's a signal for like upcoming medical disturbance from the wind materials. 09:51:03 I know that I mean, if we, you know, in the extra community, they do see out, you know, bipolar outflows extending above and below the disk, but I mean besides mad to of course in more massive objects but I don't think those go very far so I was wondering 09:51:21 if, you know, you know, evidence for outflows along along the minor axis in other wavelengths if anyone has comments on that. 09:51:33 Because I know that they're seen in simulations. 09:51:40 So Tim. 09:51:42 Tim Do you want to speak up on that. 09:51:46 Obviously, or yeah i mean i think you're absolutely right, the most of the data. 09:51:52 We can see clear by polarity is it relatively small radio. 09:51:56 I mean, maybe 10 kilo parsecs something like that. 09:52:01 And I think if the this initial colonization is probably from the interstellar medium of the galaxy and once it gets out into the Halo, it's not obvious to me that this doesn't just end the end and flavors sort of big bubble, rather than being more like 09:52:16 a jet or something like that so if I don't find it surprising that you might lose memory of the animation. 09:52:23 Once you get more than a few a few 10s of killed parsecs maybe 50 killer parsecs out from the center the other point is going to make with the data that Joe was talking about. 09:52:34 When I look at the image. 09:52:36 It clearly it doesn't look strictly symmetric, and it also looks like it's barely resolved in terms of the point spread function. So, so it'll be interesting to see what this looked like an HST images all I'm saying. 09:52:55 Also minis intermission is back scattered in the wind. So that also might complicate things a little bit, other challenges will look like. 09:53:05 Excellent point. 09:53:11 Yeah. 09:53:08 Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I think, if I were just to kind of synthesize this discussion, it seems like the evidence for by polarity in magnesium to at least is really confined, like I said you know maybe 50 kilo parsecs something like that it's not. 09:53:24 I don't think there's compelling evidence that this goes all the way up to the real radius. 09:53:32 I'll bring it back to the Milky Way I mean we see these, Rosie the bubbles and you know they're extending at least 10 kilo parsecs up, but that's not 50 caliber sex. 09:53:46 Do we see things like Rosita bubbles. 09:53:49 At fairy bubbles around other galaxies and are they bipolar. 09:53:57 And where did they lose their by poet by polarity 09:54:03 I mean I could just chime in, I mean I think the largest outflow that I'm aware of, that's clearly bipolar is this thing I showed in my talk that goes out to about, 40 k PC. 09:54:14 That's something that's sort of like a 10 X up to 20 sort of Starburst so if you know it's incredibly unusual, but that's clearly a symmetric in the bubbles that you see an oxygen to a mission go out about 40 or 50 kilo parsecs. 09:54:31 Yeah, I'm thinking of, like, two, there's two examples I can think of it I can't remember their object same there is admin Hodges cook had this NGC object that had no going out to 60 kilowatt hours explaining that kind of a classic x shape. 09:54:44 Yep. 09:54:45 And David rough key has I think what's a nature paper look. Yeah, no, that was the one I was referring to refuse paper, yep, yep. 09:54:55 Is that local I can't remember it or is that I read, I read shift, I think it's redshift of something like a half my recollection. 09:55:04 Pretty local low it should have called that. 09:55:08 Great. Well it's lively discussion, um, we have about five minutes left, and 09:55:16 I see a Todd. Todd had a comment. 09:55:20 Let's connect us to future observations, what are the best future or even current observatories for probing actual mass and outflows. 09:55:38 And I'm going to leave this open to anyone who, you don't have to raise your hand. 09:55:44 You're talking about on the scale of the CGM. Yes. Yeah. 09:55:52 I mean I think the problem is partly that you don't even know the sign of the velocity that you're seeing right and these Quasar skewers. 09:56:01 It's hard to even know what you're seeing that's interpreting the Doppler shift in terms of, you know, going in or going out or going. 09:56:10 Yeah. 09:56:13 And I think probably I mean some of the, maybe just could comment I mean, you have, as we have estimates, sort of, the order of magnitude level I guess the total baryonic mass in the CGM so you could come up without flow rates if you made the assumption 09:56:29 that you're seeing pure in fall or outflow but that's probably not a very terribly convincing argument. I wouldn't want to do that. Certainly. 09:56:42 Um, yeah i think i think for distinguishing between inflows and outflows and and and mass estimates i think you know you need, kind of a combination of what crystal, you know, has been talking about with these kind of like detailed galaxy data right knowing 09:57:02 which way it's inclined between it's rotating which way it was rotating toward you, combined with high resolution absorption measurements combined with a mission measurements, then you might actually be able to say something about inflow outflow and mass 09:57:16 in both of those flows. 09:57:23 Show on what was Tim gonna say something. 09:57:29 Anyway, before. Yeah, I thought this is a great segue to next week about future observations. 09:57:52 Going back to one of the points I was trying to raise earlier is about you know just looking at outside of velocity sheer there's, especially with Pinto beam survey, while we do our best to measure the rotation curve spatially resolve rotation curve within 09:57:54 the star formation disk. 09:57:56 When it comes to the connection to a pencil being detection, as some 58 key TPC away. There's always non negligible ambiguity there, especially you know talking to theorists what I had been reminded, time and time again, is when they looking to the simulation 09:58:27 So, so, I just want to remind people that we do have that kind of ingenuity, in all of the study so far, including the quotation measurements, but that could be resolved once we have the spatially. 09:58:43 You know result observations emission. That's afforded by into integral feel unit data, and no you know hy radio observers have been doing this for ages, but we're really entering in the optical and hopefully UV regime into this new era that we can really 09:59:00 combine spatial information with line of sight velocity information to I'm vigorously sort out the different guests motion so you were trying to understand. 09:59:15 That's my two cents. Yeah. 09:59:18 Thank you Shaolin. 09:59:21 I see Tim's hand still up if he can speak up, I think, you know, talking, you know segue into next week is going to be really, you know, lead to some very active discussions. 09:59:39 And I'm very excited about, you know, having that if you data, not just in optical and and UV, but x ray as well, thinking about spatially resolving things at and, you know, being able to detect velocities of gas at several hundred kilometers per second 09:59:58 and below is going to transform our CGM field. So, if it's now on the hour it's 10 o'clock pacific time. 10:00:11 And that was an active panel discussion and it will be tomorrow more discussions on the slack which I highly recommend continuing that discussion. 10:00:25 So we are going to take. Well, we're going to end today's session but look at the announcements and the generals channel for Joe, I believe you are in half an hour. 10:00:37 You're, you're after party and then. 10:00:43 Nick will have one. An hour later, is that correct? 10:00:47 That's correct. Okay. Thank you all and see you at the after parties. 10:00:54 Thank you. 10:00:58 Thanks panel, those those very nice. And thanks. And, yes. 10:01:04 Thanks, thanks man for most of all, thank you Crystal really excellent.